21 Comments
User's avatar
David Landsman's avatar

In Greece, during the 2009 election campaign, the socialist opposition leader George Papandreou insisted that “there is money”. His statement was in truth a bit more nuanced than that, but no one objected when it was widely construed as rejecting the need for austerity in the wake of the GFC. A few months later, as Prime Minister he was forced to seek bailout from the IMF and Eurozone.

Sara's avatar

One could say that was his strategy for the EU blob.

T.I.H.T.I.M.'s avatar

What I can’t understand is why, the supposedly sage commentators like Liam Halligan do not see……

…….or refuse to see that over the past 25yrs our governments have been DELIBERATELY crashing, de-powering, de-growing, call it what you will, DESTROYING our economy.

Until the media admits this……and also admits that the wilful abandonment of our borders is part of the plan……then there can be no progress.

Agenda 2030 is very real.

David's avatar

When you say "we have only ourselves to blame", don't count me in this. It's the politicians that have got us into this unholy mess

All Mouth And Trousers's avatar

We - as a collective - have voted for them.

We've watched the media that does not question them.

We've not spoken out when they've done these things.

Jill's avatar

You need to be our chancellor Liam……. 🙂👍

Ian Watkins's avatar

I've been having a discussion with someone who seems to think MMT is the answer to our problems.... 🤦

jacqueline young's avatar

Sadly there are a lot of people out there I think Ian who would agree with him. It's going to be a hell of a shock to their systems when the MMT dies completely.

Trevor Morgan's avatar

Under my home in somerset are shale beds rich in energy resources. Only the maddness of a crowd prevents this being extracted. Our elites are our main enemy and the time for their rule must be ended.

Jack Harper's avatar

Andy Burnham probably thinks the Bond Market is a film starring 007. The economic illiteracy of Labour politicians is total. They seem unaware that taxes pay for government and all public services and are generated by the private sector. Employment taxes on public sector employees are just a reduction in Government expenditure. The principal objective of most modern politicians is self-enrichment and nearly all of them would be unemployable in any role outside the public or charity sector.

All Mouth And Trousers's avatar

Brilliant.

Every Labour MP should be sat down and forced to watch this until they understand it.

If you want money to spend, it has to come from somewhere. Some simple rules should be carved into stone above the entrance to the House of Commons -

The Punishing the rich and business makes us all poorer.

Increasing income tax beyond a point decreases tax take.

We need to make things and sell them to the world.

Energy sets the price of everything.

Having home produced energy is vital.

Juliet Romeo's avatar

Well if being the sandwich board man saves us from eating more sh*t sandwiches that Labour keeps serving, you'll have done an incredible public service!

Sara's avatar

Be a good time for the UK to go to EU for help, could be that is the plan to shoehorn in this!

https://youtu.be/qDJh9L31JJ0?si=GnzHu-Xd8m0IUmxH

We have been warned.

NorfolkSceptic's avatar

Andrew Bailey, has been a member of the Fabian Society. No wonder he had to remove Liz Truss.

Oriel Sceptic's avatar

We as an electorate are the ones that have bought this on ourselves. As Jean-Claude Juncker (yes him) said: “we all know what to do, but we don’t know how to get re-elected once we have done it”.

Nobody wants to compromise … everybody wants the state to hand money out … we don’t want tradeoffs …

For me it’s very simple. Unless we change course and take hard decisions & recognise tradeoffs = we do it to ourselves… then we will have it done unto us. Bondholder and not uk political intervention is the likely outcome given where we are now.

That means an externally bond holder imposed technocratic Government running the country taking the decisions.

The lessons of the Greece in the Eurozone crisis are both the most recent example & salutary. Here’s the Google summary, which is specific to Greece :

During its tenure from November 2011 to May 2012, the technocratic coalition government led by Lucas Papademos implemented severe austerity measures, a historic debt restructuring, and key economic reforms required to secure Greece's Second Economic Adjustment Programme.1. The Historic "PSI" Bond SwapThe government successfully negotiated and executed the Private Sector Involvement (PSI) deal in early 2012. This remains the largest sovereign debt restructuring in history:The Debt Haircut: Private creditors (banks and institutional investors) agreed to a voluntary write-off of 53.5% of the face value of Greek bonds, which effectively resulted in a real loss of about 75% for investors.Debt Reduction: This initiative eliminated roughly €100 billion of debt from Greece's balance sheet to lower the national debt to a sustainable level.2. Draconian Austerity PackagesTo unlock a vital €130 billion international bailout package, the Papademos administration pushed aggressive spending cuts and tax hikes through parliament despite major public protests, according to The Guardian:Labor Cuts: Enacted a 22% reduction in the national minimum wage (and a 32% cut for youth under 25) to curb unit labor costs and improve international competitiveness.Pension and Job Reductions: Slashed pensions by 15% and passed plans to lay off 15,000 public sector workers.Fiscal Tightening: Passed a highly restrictive 2012 state budget that focused heavily on slashing structural deficits to satisfy the Troika.3. Structural and Labor Market ReformsThe administration signed a detailed Memorandum of Economic and Financial Policies with the IMF, European Commission, and ECB, which altered the Greek economy's structure:Deregulating Collective Bargaining: Overhauled the collective bargaining framework to prioritize company-level agreements over national collective agreements, effectively lowering private-sector wages.Privatisation Drive: Initiated a €50 billion asset privatisation scheme to sell off state-owned enterprises, infrastructure, and real estate to raise funds.Tax Overhauls: Enforced aggressive new tax laws to broaden the tax base and crack down on tax evasion.Summary of OutcomesWhile these actions prevented immediate bankruptcy and secured the funds to keep Greece inside the Eurozone, the aggressive approach exacerbated a deep economic depression. By the time the technocratic government handed power over to an elected government in May 2012, unemployment had spiked over 21%, and the domestic economy contracted severely.

Nigel Sturgeon's avatar

So a Labour MP says bond markets 'will have to fall into line'.

In line with who? In line with delusional MPs hell-bent on borrowing ever more money?

I'll have to try that one on my bank manager. "Look, I'm mortgaged to the hilt, maxed out on all my credit cards and have got bailiffs hammering on the door. But I must have the latest McLaren, so just fall into line and lend me another quarter of a million, there's a good chap.

Tom Martin's avatar

If we can't afford the mortgage, we can't afford servants, civil or otherwise!

Steve Elliott's avatar

I heard that Andy Burnham says that the UK should not be 'in hock' to the bond market and the lady above says that the markets will have to fall in line. I'm not an economist but I try to follow what's happening but since we are already in debt to the tune of £2.9 trillion how can we not be in hock to the bond market? If the government does not borrow in order to make make up the difference between receipts and spending then what happens?

Greg's avatar

Very true, Liam. My only quibble is with “we have no one to blame but ourselves”. Some of the problems were, as you know, introduced by politicians without any demand from the public, such as the triple lock on the state pension, and Tax Credits (which of course have nothing to do with tax, and which ordinary folk find counter-intuitive, in that the government/tax-payer gives some people a bonus on top of their pay, or extra money if they have children). The Coalition brought in one, New Labour brought in the other.

David Landsman's avatar

Is the growth in the welfare state really driven by the demands of the beneficiaries (claimants etc) or rather by the producer interests - public, private and third sector - in what one might describe as the “dependency industry”? And the more of them there are, the louder their voice becomes…. Much the same arguably goes for the public sector as a whole. The only answer would have to come from political leaders who are prepared to challenge the principal/agent conflict and who see their primary responsibility to be to voters/taxpayers rather than the professional/expert producer interests.

Greg's avatar

Interesting point. I thought the triple lock was aimed at securing the pensioner vote in an age of austerity: 2010-2015.